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latest hydroxychloroquine study

2020-04-21 20:03:46.582734+00 by Dan Lyke 18 comments

Maybe now we can stop killing people with hydroxychloroquine studies? More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study

With 368 patients, the study is the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for Covid-19.

More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study

[ related topics: Health virus Current Events Gambling ]

comments in ascending chronological order (reverse):

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-04-22 10:41:37.019515+00 by: TheSHAD0W [edit history]

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1

Study failed to also administer zinc. Zinc is the actual "active ingredient" for the therapy; chloroquine stimulates cells to uptake it more than normal.
This wasn't a double-blind experiment.
Note that even the mortality rate for "standard therapy" was 11%, which is way higher than expected, indicating this was an unusual test population.
Hydroxychloroquine is used in a large number of therapies, and while there's some risk you wouldn't expect such an enormously higher death rate with it's use unless something was very wrong with the protocol.

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-04-22 15:49:08.324292+00 by: Dan Lyke

Yeah, it's one in a long chain that's not showing any positive effect: https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/...-do-the-clinical-trials-tell-us/

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-04-24 16:36:52.08831+00 by: Dan Lyke

And another one: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/2...-short-over-safety-concerns.html

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-04-25 22:09:27.209397+00 by: TheSHAD0W

RTFP:

They were giving the "high dose" population 1200 mg/day, which is wayyy more than they should have. I'm not surprised they developed cardiac issues. The low-dose population was getting 900 mg on the first day, then 450 mg/day on subsequent days. The recommended therapeutic dose I'm seeing is 600 mg/day straight.
No zinc administered.
Lethality was ~15% in the low-dosage group, compared to an expected 27% for people in that condition. (39% for the high-dosage group.)
The paper's conclusion merely states that people shouldn't receive the high dosage schedule.

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-05-03 22:31:17.732254+00 by: TheSHAD0W

Gonna dump this here, in case anyone wants to read into it:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HCQ has 4 mechanisms of action:

It binds the GBD of the spike protein preventing binding with the ACE2 receptor

https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ce/article/pii/S0924857920301102

It is known to block virus infection by increasing endosomal pH required for virus/cell fusion

https://www.nature.com/article...0ygN1LtI67SkcgREM4DyxxAcPauRuf5w

It has an anti-inflammatory effect which is protective against cytokine storm

https://europepmc.org/article/med/8336306

It is a zinc ionophore allowing for higher levels of zinc to enter the cell which inhibits RNA polymerase.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4182877/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2973827/

------------------

IN VIVO DATA:

17 March 2020 : First Paper published, N-count 20 - 100% cured totally, 6 days of pills

https://files.catbox.moe/h5tyv6.pdf

27 March 2020 : Second Paper published, N-count 80 - 99% of dying cured totally, 8 days of pills

https://www.mediterranee-infec...ploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

9 April 2020 : Third Paper abstract, N-count 1,061 - 91.7%% of semi-sick cured, 3 days of pills

https://www.mediterranee-infec...arlyTrtCovid19_09042020_vD1v.pdf

1 May 2020: HCQ application is associated with a decreased mortality in critically ill patients with COVID-19 (Mortality: 45.8% control vs 18.8% with HCQ)

https://www.medrxiv.org/conten...1/2020.04.27.20073379v1.full.pdf

---------------

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-05-09 16:55:24.603076+00 by: Dan Lyke

Another one https://time.com/5833945/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-study/ https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/.../NEJMoa2012410?query=main_nav_lg

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-05-10 00:49:50.841072+00 by: TheSHAD0W

And again, no zinc, though the dosage appears to be what's been suggested elsewhere. Also, no azithromycin.

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-05-16 18:32:17.231317+00 by: Dan Lyke

Drug promoted by Trump as coronavirus ‘game changer’ increasingly linked to deaths

For two months, President Trump repeatedly pitched hydroxychloroquine as a safe and effective treatment for coronavirus, asking would-be patients “What the hell do you have to lose?”

Growing evidence shows that, for many, the answer is their lives.

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-05-17 02:20:00.345084+00 by: TheSHAD0W

The article mostly references the studies previously noted here, with the defects in those studies I mentioned. The one item not mentioned is a paper regarding long-QT syndrome with patients using HCQ. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.02.20047050v1

Examination of the paper shows no data on dosages used, whether varying dosages were used and if so, no correlation between dosages and detected increase in QT timing. HCQ is known to exacerbate long-QT syndrome and should be administered under supervision - though it's been available OTC outside the US for a long time.

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-06-04 23:29:36.91777+00 by: Dan Lyke

I think I've seen a bunch more that didn't show positive effect, I stopped checking them all, but now there's this: Covid-19: Lancet retracts paper that halted hydroxychloroquine trials

The lead author, Prof Mandeep Mehra, from the Brigham and Women’s hospital in Boston, Massachusetts decided to ask the Lancet for the retraction because he could no longer vouch for the data’s accuracy.

Whoah!

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-06-05 10:01:44.966529+00 by: TheSHAD0W

Most of what I've seen is either very small populations, too small to say anything definitively; or was just bad science. Nearly nothing duplicating the original French study that showed promise. There isn't enough money in it for a pharma company to fund a proper, big double-blind study, and too much political furor for government to do it. that's what would be needed in this case.

I don't know if anyone here knows why a French researcher would have tried such an unlikely combination of an "antiparasitic" and an antibotic on a viral disease so quickly after it emerged. The reason is the combo was used to treat SARS.

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-07-03 18:20:34.207748+00 by: Dan Lyke

And a latest latest one that's apparently showing some positive results until you read the "Strengths and weaknesses" section and realize that there's some sample bias which may be too big for the study to overcome: An Observational Cohort Study of Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin for COVID-19: (Can’t Get No) Satisfaction

DOI:https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijid.2020.06.095

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-07-05 15:16:44.293504+00 by: TheSHAD0W

Yup. It's actually really tough to do good science.

But that doesn't mean all study should be halted...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...trials-failure-reduce-death.html

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-07-29 23:00:19.471428+00 by: TheSHAD0W

Gonna drop this here, because this is essentially a meta-study on a huge scale, and if the stats are right it's quite conclusive. https://files.catbox.moe/8kt6ia.jpg

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-08-01 19:33:58.177756+00 by: markd [edit history]

At least for Turkey (haven't looked at the others), they also really early on did the thing things that we're unable, unwilling, or incapable of doing: "Turkey fits in the category of several countries that responded fairly quickly with testing, tracing, isolation and movement restrictions," he (Dr Jeremy Rossman, Lecturer in Virology at the University of Kent) told the BBC. "It's a fairly small club of countries that have been quite effective in reducing the viral spread." So I wouldn't lie this totally at the feet of hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52831017

Also, they conveniently left off Japan, which has a higher population, lower case load, and don't use hydroxychloroquine AFAIK.

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-08-07 17:43:31.283455+00 by: Dan Lyke

Pro: Newsweek: The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It | Opinion — Harvey A. Risch, MD, PhD , Professor of Epidemiology, Yale School of Public Health

Con: Science Based Medicine: Hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19: Evidence can’t seem to kill it

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-10-04 16:36:41.610646+00 by: Dan Lyke

Hydroxychloroquine Doctor is Furious Donald Trump Took 'Experimental Antibody Stupidness'

The FDA revoked hydroxychloroquine's emergency use authorization in July after evidence began to mount that suggested it was not effective for COVID-19. Two early studies of the drug, which were later criticized for questionable methodology, had hinted the drug could be promising. Several high-quality, randomized studies published subsequently were less than encouraging.

Regardless, Immanuel insisted that the drug was a "cure" for the virus. The video that was shared by Trump was later deleted from social media platforms for spreading misinformation. Other unsubstantiated claims from Immanuel include declarations that fasting can cure those affected by "witchcraft," that having sex with demons while dreaming can cause gynecological problems and that certain medications contain the DNA of extraterrestrial aliens.

#Comment Re: latest hydroxychloroquine study made: 2020-10-05 02:31:41.591353+00 by: TheSHAD0W

Yah, he's an idiot. You don't want to use HCQ in some people. You also don't want to use remdesivir in some patients. Depends on various things.

Also, while this antibody therapy may not be very effective, it may also have a very low chance of side-effects; so when it's the prez and the sky's the limit, might as well throw it in.

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