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Blackhole of Java..

2006-03-02 15:37:01.314161+00 by meuon 7 comments

Well I just bought Tom and Dori's Java Book and am possibly heading down the dark path of .jsp pages with lots and lots of JavasScript and CSS as well. RollOver's... Ugh.

[ related topics: Books Software Engineering ]

comments in ascending chronological order (reverse):

#Comment Re: made: 2006-03-02 16:29:14.981834+00 by: Dan Lyke

Looks from that page like it's just Dori's Java book...

#Comment Re: made: 2006-03-02 21:14:51.897271+00 by: meuon

You know, I noticed that on Checkout, the name went from Tom to Dori.. But anyway... with luck, I'll be helping clean up a pretty interesting system next week.

#Comment Re: made: 2006-03-02 22:30:06.980521+00 by: Dori

JavaScript VQS, Mac OS X Unwired, and Dreamweaver VQS are us -- Java is just me.

OTOH, if you're looking for rollovers, you want JavaScript, not Java. And so far as I can tell from Amazon, they're not currently selling my Java book any more :-(, so maybe it is the JavaScript book that you bought?

If you have any questions, feel free to give a yell.

#Comment Re: made: 2006-03-02 22:41:44.669327+00 by: Dan Lyke

Naww, I know he already had the JavaScript book, and we'd chatted a bit about the upcoming job, so I'm fairly sure that he's whining about two things:

  1. Overuse of JavaScript means the site's got lots of bling, less usability (as an aside, I ran across one site recently, probably either PayPal or eBay that wouldn't let me correct an area code because they used three input fields with JavaScript for automatic tabbing, and any attempt to enter a character when the field had three characters in it jumped to the next one. Only way to fix it was to mouse select all three characters, then hit delete... There are valid uses for JavaScript, you've shown me that, but most of the ways it's perverted are just plain evil).
  2. Java back-end. It's possible to do good things with Java back ends, but in 99.44% of existing Java back-ends, that was sold as a deployment environment because somebody involved in the project had more book learning than experience.

#Comment Re: made: 2006-03-03 15:43:56.622622+00 by: meuon [edit history]

Yes, Dori, I know the difference between Java and Javascript.. and know just enought java.object.abstractedness.orientedness.purgatory.insanity to know I'm in for some headaches. So they have java code pseudo-generating complex javascript in a content creation process where most of the code seems to be related to rollovers. Some of that is good: Rollover some words and a definition or relevent content pops up. Some of it is bad: rollover/hover and it swaps images for that depressed button graphical feel, and it's broken on anthing other than MSIE.

Note: a lot of the rest of the code is about storing session data in a frame of a frameset.. not cookies, not session data in a webserver/sql server..

Why? Because MSIE allows bad code, it skips right over errors, and does what it can.

And Amazon referred me to your book from another seller.. and it's coming from one of them, via Amazon's ordering process.

As for Dan's point #2: the CTO has a PHD, Uses M$-HomeSite to edit code via SCP. - He's very smart, and knows his stuff, and I like him, so this could be fun and productive.. but he's in for some techno-culture-skill shock: I run around as root and edit live code.. bad practices, but I am good at them at it makes for fast fixing/changing/creating..

Is Dori available 'per hour'?

#Comment Re: made: 2006-03-04 00:23:37.208655+00 by: Dori

First you make this sound like the project from hell, and then you ask me if I'm available?? ;-)

Actually, the answer is yes, for JavaScript stuff. I've more-or-less gotten out of the Java biz since its move to the server side. I've done a bit, but I prefer working on the client end.

I suspect that you may be disappointed by the Java book (sorry!) as its primary focus is on applets. There's only one chapter on server-side stuff. That's why I haven't bothered updating it, as it would need to be reworked from top to bottom to meet current trends and the market (as I perceive it) just isn't there to make it worthwhile.

#Comment Re: made: 2006-03-04 09:50:55.552136+00 by: meuon

Yep, that's me: getting paid to learn/write Java long after it's hit the popular peak. I also do line numbered basic as part of a lounge act. :)